• Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
          53·
          15 days ago

          If you feel that’s accurate, then you should support ending the Trade Embargo and sanctions on the DPRK, as that’s the quickest and surest path to improving quality of life for the people there.

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
              3·
              15 days ago

              It’s like they think the effects of the trade embargo and sanctions will finally do a 180 and collapse the government, with no actual indication that that will happen despite decades of sanctions and far worse periods of time.

              • Thebigguy@lemmy.mlEnglish
                4·
                15 days ago

                Well they’re propagandised sociopaths who think starving a whole nation is justified so long as the nation doesn’t share their politics.

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
                  3·
                  15 days ago

                  Yep, even if we decided that the DPRK government is utterly evil, sanctions have only strengthened its legitimacy in the eyes of North Koreans. The only goal this is fulfilling is harming the people.

        • A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world
          65·
          15 days ago

          I mean… no, it would be the equivalent of going on a state-sanctioned tour of parts of Germany that weren’t demolished yet, because that’s what you do when you go to DPRK. They don’t take you to labor camps.

          Honestly, any tourism revenue made by DPRK is a drop in the ocean compared to what they make off crypto and hacking. If you’re in a position to visit and you’re curious, I don’t see anything particularly wrong with visiting - just be aware you’re getting a carefully-tailored experience, not the whole picture.

            • silly goose meekah@lemmy.world
              51·
              15 days ago

              comparing the whole country to a concentration camp massively downplays the conditions in concentration camps. I’m sure being a citizen there isn’t fun but it’s still different.

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
        34·
        15 days ago

        All sanctions on the DPRK have done is strengthen the legitimacy of the government and starve people. Witholding resources hasn’t damaged the government, rather, it has had a uniting effect on the people. Withholding tourist revenue isn’t going to change that, just slow development down.

    • gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      73·
      15 days ago

      Because every cent you spend there goes more or less directly into Kim Jong Un’s pocket?

      Unless you’re a journalist or investigator or something like that (and North Korea, for some reason, doesn’t seems to love those types). But if you’re just going as a looky-loo: don’t.

  • Onno (VK6FLAB)@lemmy.radio
    71·
    15 days ago

    Interesting question. I suspect that it’s similar (but different) to asking, should you watch a movie made by someone who later was found to be a criminal at the time that movie was made.

    I suspect that the answer depends on your personal moral compass, the norms, values and standards you shape your life by.

    There’s a famous speech by Australian Lieutenant General David Lindsay Morrison AO, who said:

    “The standard you walk past, is the standard you accept.”

    Source: https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/David_Morrison

    In other words, I think it’s up to each individual to decide how they feel about it and act accordingly.

    But you asked how I feel about it.

    In short, I think that we live in a civil society where the regime in that country is not representative of a world I want to be part of. As such, travelling there under the current regime is not something I’d contemplate.

    I’d also point out that I feel the same way about visiting the United States of America under its current regime.

    Finally, I suppose there’s an aspect of risk associated with visiting either country. I have no way to evaluate how that might compare with other extreme sports, but I suppose there’s a thrill that draws in some individuals, overriding any moral considerations.

  • Zexks@lemmy.world
    104·
    15 days ago

    Imma buck the trend and say yes. No amount of sanctions lifting is going to make them better or change their governments. Looks at china, russia, half the Middle East and Africa. The money you give them goes straight to the regime. You can put other North Korean lives of those on your tours at risk by asking the wrong questions or looking in the wrong direction to saying the wrong thing which can send them, and their family for up to four generations to a labor camp. No amount of interaction is going to override the fact that they live there or cause the population to revolt. All you’re doing is giving I’m money and putting lives of those you interact with and those WHICH ARE NOT EVEN BORN YET at risk. Yes it is immoral. Don’t tour the DPRK.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
      42·
      15 days ago

      No amount of sanctions have risked government collapse in the DPRK either, all sanctions have accomplished is collective punishment. This is a deeply chauvanist take.

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
          41·
          15 days ago

          The US destroyed 80% of buildings in the DPRK, and dropped more tons of bombs on it than the entirety of the Pacific Front of World War II. Millions of Korean citizens, civilians included, were murdered by the US. Providing minor aid during the dissolution of their biggest trade partner, the USSR, while sanctioning them out of building up their own industry for trade with the world for necessities doesn’t cancel that out at all.

          Their nuclear program is to prevent the genocide the US committed against them from ever happening again, if you want to end the nuclear program then you should look to normalizing relations.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
      3·
      15 days ago

      Honestly I just really want to try Pyongyang nengmyeun, which is more “clean” and minimally seasoned than South Korean styles of nengmyeun, yet is still seen as one of the best styles of nengmyeun in South Korea as well.

      • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
        3·
        15 days ago

        Oh that sounds like it would be good with just vegetable broth! I do struggle traveling trying to find vegan options, or explaining that I don’t want meat/eggs. Personally I would want to see what the hiking trails are like there!

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
          3·
          15 days ago

          I know 😭 I try to veganize Korean dishes and use vegan Korean recipes, but I haven’t found a great nengmyeun recipe yet. There’s absolutely no better dish on a hot summer day than nengmyeun IMO. And for sure, the hiking would probably be amazing, but extremely cold if not during the peak seasons, haha.

  • Azzu@lemm.ee
    42·
    15 days ago

    Most things you can do with your money are unethical, i.e. support a bad system that unnecessarily hurts people.

    As far as that goes though, imo visiting the DPRK is a relatively bad one. I don’t see the benefit for yourself, you get to see a tour of exactly what they want you to see, nothing real will ever be experienced. You put yourself in massive danger, tourists there have been detained and killed. All the money you spend goes directly to support the authoritarian government, which only seems to care about giving themselves a life of luxury and their people barely enough so they can maintain their luxury.

    You do get a view of an authoritarian regime working firsthand, which is a positive, but I just feel like it’s already good/bad enough to know about it than having experienced it yourself.

    So yeah, imo massive amount of reasons against, almost none for.

    • Shimitar@downonthestreet.euEnglish
      61·
      15 days ago

      I would say, it’s more dangerous to visit US than NK. In the US you can be in trouble for many reasons.

      I have to say, it’s easier to be in trouble while traveling in the US than in NK.

      • TooManyFoods@lemmy.world
        42·
        15 days ago

        Didn’t NK kill a guy for taking a picture down in a hotel?

        Edit: sentenced to 15 years hard labor which he didn’t survive for theift of a poster. They sent him home shortly before, but he had been vegitablized. I’m betting he thought it would be a fun souvenir.

      • Zexks@lemmy.world
        13·
        15 days ago

        Show me the law where the us imprisons a family for generations for the sins of another like they do in North Korea. Stop being stupid.